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Viper 5901 Remote Start

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Old 02-05-2010, 11:45 PM
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Viper 5901 Remote Start

Hey guys,

Just got my Viper 5901 and AVIC-X910 setup today. Install looks great, but I had a couple of questions for you guys.

1) Is anyone running a remote start on their 6MT? Before I get flamed - I know the obvious drawbacks and unsafe aspects of running a remote start on a 6MT. The reason I'm here is to ask for people's feedback on how they tied into the PNP and clutch switch to get the car to start only when in neutral.

2) As far as a key goes...are people using the Directed Electronics Transponder Bypass or just mounting the chip of a spare key in the steering wheel column (I have seen both done, which is why I ask)
Old 02-08-2010, 08:43 AM
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For the system to be hooked up LEGALLY, you should have to be going through a series of steps to allow it to remote start. Pull up the parking brake, push the foot brake, push any key on remote, lights flash 5 times, get out of car and close door, arm car. Remote starts shuts down. If this is not how it work on your car, the shop has bypassed the safety features, which is illegal and highly dangerous. I have worked in several shops and seen customers cars that had been done illegaly and had a ford probe hop an oversized curb and smash into the store, shattering the front window. I have seen a mazda hop across the install bay about 20 feet towards an nsx on jackstands. Think if these cars or yours were parked in a parking lot and accidentally remote started as some one was walking in between this car and another parked car. You would be sued in a heartbeat. If your car does not need to have these steps taken, they have maybe bypassed the clutch switches, but set the brain up in 'automatic' mode. Seriously dangerous!

As for the key/chip intergration, there is the new Xpresskit XK09 or the dei 556u which you actually put an extra key in. I have done both. I really like the Xpress kit module. Some have a few hiccups when they come out, but they generally fix them really fast. Also, once the module is 'written' to a car, it cannot be reused again. It must be sent back in to be reset.
Old 02-08-2010, 10:12 AM
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Its a really good alarm and I just got it installed...(don't forget to wire up the windows - no module need to open/close window), seriously be careful with the manual start.. and i got the key bypass, i like my 3 keys..lol the only down side is that the security light (oem) stay on when only when you remote start.
Old 02-08-2010, 12:36 PM
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Don't worry guys, I'm not the type of person where I will rely on remote start, and I definitely wouldn't be remote starting my car without remembering the car being in neutral. Because of where I live, most of my parking is done out of gear anyway, just using the e-brake.

That being said, I want to be safe about this and I will be testing the voltage over the PnP switch making sure that it's functioning before I go wire anything to it.

Randy - are you driving a 6MT? If so, how is your remote start wired? And does the G not need the Window Automation Module? I'd be curious how you have it wired otherwise, since I figured the window automation module was basically just a relay into your factory window switch to roll it down/up. Or can the alarm just tap into the auto-up/down feature on the G?

Other than that, this is an amazing alarm. I'll be getting the tilt sensor and glass break sensor to go along with the standard shock sensor (which works very well). Thanks for the advice.
Old 02-08-2010, 12:46 PM
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There are no "laws" against hooking remote starts up on 6mts. There is huge liability, but you arn't breaking the law if you do so.

That being said, to do it safely you must provide a way to prevent the car from starting in any gear. Luckily, Nissan uses a Park/Neutral Position (PNP) switch. This switch goes to ground when the tranny is in N and is used to limit no load revving. You can pick this signal up at the ECU. I've never actually used it for a remote start by I have measured this wire with a volt meter and can verify that it goes to ground when in N and drops out when in any gear. Connecting this signal to your NSS input will make the remote start on your 6mt as safe as a remote start on a 5at.

Do NOT put a chip in the steering column. First off, if the system "sees" two keys at the same time it won't start, so you'll have to strip all your "normal" keys. Second, that permanently bypasses the transponder system making the car extremely easy to steal. When installing a remote start bypass the bypass is ONLY active when you remote start so the integrity of the OEM system is left in tact. Of course when installing ANY bypass make sure the bypass is tucked away in a place that no thief would have easy access to (ie don't just throw it under the dash). If a thief can access the bypass, regardless of the type of bypass, your car is that much easier to steal.

Last edited by KPierson; 02-08-2010 at 08:47 PM.
Old 02-08-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauer418 View Post
Don't worry guys, I'm not the type of person where I will rely on remote start, and I definitely wouldn't be remote starting my car without remembering the car being in neutral. Because of where I live, most of my parking is done out of gear anyway, just using the e-brake.

That being said, I want to be safe about this and I will be testing the voltage over the PnP switch making sure that it's functioning before I go wire anything to it.

Randy - are you driving a 6MT? If so, how is your remote start wired? And does the G not need the Window Automation Module? I'd be curious how you have it wired otherwise, since I figured the window automation module was basically just a relay into your factory window switch to roll it down/up. Or can the alarm just tap into the auto-up/down feature on the G?

Other than that, this is an amazing alarm. I'll be getting the tilt sensor and glass break sensor to go along with the standard shock sensor (which works very well). Thanks for the advice.
Hey sorry no 6mt here -Thanks goodness I would of die (crazy driver..lol), and as for the windows you have to connect aux 3/4 (up/dwn) to the door directly,don't let anyone tell you that you need a module.

I didn't install the tilt and glass sensor, because I think its a waste of money. On the remote you can change the shock sensor setting. When I park in places that are shady I turn the shock sensor up to 15 and when I don't i turn it down to 10-12. Its very easy to adjust from the remote. So I don't see the point in a glass sensor. At level 15 even if you tap the license plate cover a little to hard it warns me on remote with a soft chip on the car. You can even arm everything and when a zone is tripped only the remote makes noise. Even with a trucks hard start up it warns me. As for the tilt sensor I would get the proximity sensor. That would be better.
Old 02-08-2010, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPierson View Post
There are no "laws" against hooking remote starts up on 6mts. There is hugh liability, but you arn't breaking the law if you do so.

That being said, to do it safely you must provide a way to prevent the car from starting in any gear. Luckily, Nissan uses a Park/Neutral Position (PNP) switch. This switch goes to ground when the tranny is in N and is used to limit no load revving. You can pick this signal up at the ECU. I've never actually used it for a remote start by I have measured this wire with a volt meter and can verify that it goes to ground when in N and drops out when in any gear. Connecting this signal to your NSS input will make the remote start on your 6mt as safe as a remote start on a 5at.

Do NOT put a chip in the steering column. First off, if the system "sees" two keys at the same time it won't start, so you'll have to strip all your "normal" keys. Second, that permanently bypasses the transponder system making the car extremely easy to steal. When installing a remote start bypass the bypass is ONLY active when you remote start so the integrity of the OEM system is left in tact. Of course when installing ANY bypass make sure the bypass is tucked away in a place that no thief would have easy access to (ie don't just throw it under the dash). If a thief can access the bypass, regardless of the type of bypass, your car is that much easier to steal.
Hey you know you stuff! Thanks for helping me with the wiring of the windows. Not steal the thread, I have the bypass module that lets me keep the keys, but after a remote start I unlock the car, get in turn key, and step on the brakes, the alarm disables but i notice that the security light still stay lit, is that normal? when i don't remote start the car everything is normal
Old 02-08-2010, 01:35 PM
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And Kevin Pierson is here to save the day. Yea, I was looking for people that successfully tested the PnP switch, awesome. What is the best way to do the clutch bypass? I was thinking about a relay on remote start to trigger the clutch switch, that way I still need the clutch depressed to start it with the normal key. I already ordered the 556U RF bypass, so I'll be doing it the correct way.

I can get the glass break sensor for $8 through accommodations where I work, and because I live in a college town where drunk people rage the streets all night, I think it would be a good thing to have.
Old 02-08-2010, 02:05 PM
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You are right on with the clutch bypass. You can trigger a relay off the starter output of the alarm to close the clutch switch. This way, it will only be bypassed when the car is remote starting. I believe the Viper has a (-) 2nd starter output that would be great to use for this (as well as a relay for the second starter). You don't want to completely disable the clutch interlock.

Randy - I wouldn't say that a light staying on is "normal". I'm still not 100% sold on the data bypasses as they still have issues like that. A "key in the box" solution wouldn't leave any lights on at all, at the expense of giving up a key.
Old 02-08-2010, 03:48 PM
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Ok, so if I wanted to do the clutch bypass during remote start and the window auto-up when arming, I would need two relays, correct?

Relay 1 to the starter output on the Viper to close the clutch switch circuit and allow the car to start, set the relay to 10 seconds, for example, so it will stay closed during ignition?

Relay 2 to the lock wires on the doors with a 10 second timer so they roll up with the arming?

This leaves me with one question, if I also wire the window roll-up to aux 3/4 and roll up my windows with my car door open, will they windows go completely up, or until their stopping point (about 1/2" below the door frame).
Old 02-08-2010, 04:39 PM
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You wouldn't have to "set" the relay, the timing will come from the brain as it only energizes the starter output until the car is started.

For the windows, the Viper alarm has a "comfort close" feature. This assumes that the lock/unlock wires were ran in to the doors and connected at the power window / door lock switch inside the door. If they connected the door lock/unlock wires to open pins at the BCM or used a module this will NOT work. If you enable comfort closing and everything is wired correctly when you lock the car the output will stay on for 30 seconds make sure the windows go all the way up. Since the signal goes through the door lock wire to the BCM the BCM will actually control the windows and the windows will not go all the way up if the door is open (in fact I don't think the windows will go up at all if you have the door open).

If you decide to hook the AUX channels up to the lock and unlock wires to have manual control (instead of raising every time you arm) you can hook the (-) outputs right up to the lock unlock wires - no relays needed. You can set the aux outputs to validity or 30 second timed and they will both work.
Old 02-08-2010, 08:44 PM
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My apologies on the law aspect of it, I thought that some states had laws against the install of remote starts on manual cars. This is information that had been fed to me from managers of shops I had worked in.

As for the security light staying on, if you have the right module it should have two wires that need to interupt the security light wire. They may not have been hooked up due to somebody taking shortcuts.

Thats also why I asked about the process to remote start it. The manual mode setup on all the new viper(dei) systems require you to do that in order for it to engage the next time. I have had a few cars in for me to troubleshoot from different store/states and have found some shady things. Bypassing the clutch switch on some of the systems completely so you don't even need to push the clutch in at all. That or hooking it up from the alarm to bypass the clutch switches and programming the alarm into auto mode so you don't need to do the process to remote start it next time. All of the new viper systems come shipped in manual mode, so the installer is knowingly changing it to the auto mode.

I will admit that I have been against the practice of installing remote starts in manuals due to the fact that there are so many people that try to do it the easy and quick way with no thought of "what if?". Witnessing it first hand too is something that can solidify the thought. For those people who say "I never leave it in gear", it may not be you doing it, but a friend, relative, mechanic that was in the car last. If a car can clear a curb and smash the front of a store, denting a metal frame leaving 2 indentations from the license plate and shattering the front glass..... I am pretty sure it would not have any problem crushing a small child against another car in a parking lot or knocking over an adult and pinning them under the car and still trying to jump forward.
Old 02-08-2010, 09:47 PM
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Agreed, which is why I'm taking precautions to ensure that the vehicle will not start when in gear. At that point, the remote start system is as safe as the vehicle's own monitoring systems. For me, remote start will be a convenience rather than a necessity. In other words, I won't be remote starting my car from a quarter mile away. I may start it as I'm walking to the car so my head unit has a chance to boot up before I get in, or so my heating or A/C can kick in, but that's it.

Kevin,
I appreciate the help on this subject. My car is going in to Infiniti for an inspection this Friday and they'll be keeping the car for the weekend, so I won't be getting to finish my remote start/alarm project until next week. Thanks again, though, and I'll let you know how it goes.
Old 05-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but I had a question I was hoping somebody could answer.

I am getting ready to have a Zenesis alarm w/ remote start installed, and was told that in addition to the clutch bypass, I needed to purchase an additional module that would interface my stock alarm with an aftermarket remote start. Does anybody have any idea what this module may be? I was told DEI made it.

I have no problem paying for anything necessary, but the gentleman quoted me at $125 for this module & the entire install was only going to be $200 for labor... I am thinking that I am being overcharged on this part, because from my recollection any sort of DEI module has been 1/2 that price or less.
Old 05-19-2011, 12:25 PM
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No problems reviving the thread. The only module I needed to get was the DEI 556U (you can see it here ). Yes, it's $24.99, and it's used as a transponder bypass to make the vehicle detect a key during remote start.

I did not need any addition modules for door locks or anything else, and certainly nothing for $125.

If it's a 5AT - you're good to go with just that module and it's a fairly straight-forward install. On a 6MT, you'll need to find the P/NP switch at the ECU to ensure you can only remote start when in neutral.

Hopefully this helps.

Edit: didn't see you mentioned a clutch bypass so you're on a 6MT. The clutch bypass is pretty simple, can be done with a relay switch to close the clutch loop during remote start, read KPierson's post above. Make sure you hit the P/NP switch at the ECU so your car doesn't drive away from you when you accidentally remote start in gear.

Last edited by Bauer418; 05-19-2011 at 12:29 PM.

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5901, fast, flashing, g35, installing, key, light, manual, mode, programming, proximity, remote, setup, start, viper, xk09
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